In that case I know what I get although I prefer new books
Presently I have Tschai in the vie edition on the reading table. wondering if I will See changes
How about others ??
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Willem
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Which book from Jack are you (rereading) Now? |
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Because of reasons that are not always clear I choose to reread books including books from my Vance collection.
In that case I know what I get although I prefer new books Presently I have Tschai in the vie edition on the reading table. wondering if I will See changes How about others ?? |
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David B Williams |
Manic yes, omnivorous no; JV's Cadwal secret revealed | #21 | |||||||
Sarnidac the Dwarf wrote:Not at all. As I gazed upon my Vance shelves and considered what to read next, I felt no tingling attractions to the Tschai series. Guess I'll have to save that for later. The same with Cugel. These were not critical responses - I have read Tschai and Cugel many times and will do so again (indeed, I consider Cugel to be JV's most difficult literary achievement). But right now, I'm just not in the mood. Regarding your lack of enthusiasm for Throy, I had an odd thought when I re-read it so recently: I believe that JV wrote the whole Cadwal Chronicles just to set up the fight scene between Smonny and Dame Clytie! Note how, from the beginning, he set up the leaders of not one but two factions to be large, domineering, and aggressive women, an odd decision for a writer who didn't have something very specific in mind. (This fight scene is really the climax of the extended story. The vast destruction of both Stroma and Yipton occurs as a result of the factional differences within the anti-charter camp and not the conflict between the Conservancy backers and opponents.) |
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Talleyrand |
#22 | ||||||||
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Most reread books by me are Tschai and The Demon Princes (both I guess around 7-8 times). But I have never reread non-Vance books and don't feel any desire
to do so either.
This week I picked up Durdane again. Maybe the 4th time in many years and the last time was really long ago. The strange thing with starting to reread a Vance book after a long time is that it gives a stronger feeling of excitement than when starting some new none-Vance book because somehow the Vance book seems to be almost entirely new each time and you discover so many new things in it but at the same time it's comfortingly familiar and you know you have again boarded a fantastic adventure. |
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Clement Jackson |
#23 | ||||||||
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I've often thought that the Cadwal series would make more sense as two books:
Book 1. "Araminta Station + "Ecce". Glawen comes of age, solves the murder of Sessily Veder, and rescues his father. There are intimations of deeper currents, which are explored in Book 2. "Old Earth" and "Throy". The 3-way struggle for control of Cadwal. The perspective is widened and not as focused on Glawen. Perhaps it was split into a trilogy because that's a more saleable format? |
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Lugwiler |
#24 | ||||||||
Clement Jackson wrote: Back in the early 1990s when Throy appeared, I was surprised at how thin the book was and assumed that Vance's health was failing and he wanted to finish the trilogy while he was still alive. In retrospect, I guess he had other reasons for writing what is essentially the bare minimum needed to wrap the plot up. I suspect that at some point in its development Throy was intended as a much longer work. |
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Sarnidac the Dwarf |
Quite so | #25 | |||||||
Clement Jackson wrote:I agree. Whenever I'm rereading Araminta Station, one of my favorites, I always include the first two chapters of Ecce and Old Earth. The rescue of Glawen's father is an essential part of the first book. And when I reread Ecce and Old Earth (a bit less frequently, but as I get older, I seem to like Old Earth more and more) I start with the third chapter, Wayness' arrival at Fair Winds. From there, the story develops logically, Wayness coming down the ladder, Glawen going up. Ah, it's a pleasure to reread the very names again : "Gohoon Galleries to Funusti Museum to Mirky Porod to Trieste, to Casa Lucasta, ad finally to Moonway." (and here my favorites are Funusti Museum and Old Trieste). The last lines of Araminta Station are : "He (Glawen) said nothing. He turned and at best speed trotted up Wansey Way." Although Kirdy's death is an important episode, I have always considered this end to be too abrupt, not at all a typical Vancean open-end as in Tschai, the Demon Princes or Durdane. I would have preferred the last lines of the second chapter of Ecce and Old Earth, where the fact of Bodwyn Wook assigning a new mission to Glawen provides the logical end to the story and the somewhat cynical conclusion of their dialogue a perfect Vancean touch : "Your request is denied," said Bodwyn Wook. "I am assigning you to a special mission. You must proceed to Earth at best speed and there clarify this matter we have been discussing to the best of your ability." "Very good, sir," said Glawen. "I withdraw my request." "Quite so," said Bodwyn Wook. To cut it short : I suspect that Jack's editor showed some alarm and dismay at the increasing length of the first book of the trilogy, and decided that 500 pages were more than enough. It's even possible that the first two chapters of Ecce and Old Earth were already finished when that decision was made. It would be interesting to hear from Jack or others (David, perhaps) if such was indeed the case.
Ambulo, ergo sum!
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David B Williams |
A critical interjection...or two | #26 | |||||||
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Alas, I have no information regarding the writing and editing of the Cadwal Chronicles. However, your editorial instincts are correct, and your solution
should be adopted in some future edition. Or maybe the Chronicles should be published in two volumes, as suggested, or even four?
Regarding the demise of Kirdy, I have to interject a criticism of Jack Vance (eek!). This whole scene is nonsensical, just so JV can set up the scene of drama in the surf. Kirdy's guilt as Sesily's murderer was established at the preceding meeting with Bodwin Wook, Glawen, et al. Then, preposterously, Bodwin Wook declares that this is not an formal arraignment and Kirdy is allowed to wander off. Odd proceedings for a law enforcement agency -- has the head of Bureau B not heard of arrest as the first step in bringing a criminal to justice? The other fiasco in the Cadwal Chronicles is the ridiculous death of Milo. Would any sane people try to adapt these monstrous, savage beasts for tourist transporation? I recall that JV made some excuses about why the group couldn't use flyers, but really, give me a break. |
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Sarnidac the Dwarf |
proper procedures | #27 | |||||||
David B Williams wrote:Regarding the editing of the Cadwal Chronicles, I feel that the bigger part of the praise should go to Clement, since he was the first to remark upon this (unless the matter has already been discussed and is now buried in the archives). I do not agree with you that the whole scene of Kirdy's demise is nonsensical. Quite the contrary : The cases of both Arles and the four Oomps from Thurben Island show us the proper procedure to be followed when capital crimes and major felonies have to be punished : Bodwyn Wook, as superintendent of Bureau B, has to convoke 1) the functionaries dealing with the case 2) the Housemaster of the family to whom the accused belongs 3) the Conservator. In the case of Arles, both the Clattuc Housemaster Fratano and Bodwyn Wook were called to Riverview House, not because Egon Tamm is the victim's father, but because he is the Conservator ("to whom power flows from the Grant through legitimate Wardens"). The Thurben case is even more elucidating : "Present at the inquiry were Scharde, Egon Tamm the Conservator and Glawen." By now all readers know that Egon Tamm is the conservator;but in this sentence, the mentioning of his office was essential (the Housemaster is obviously not needed here). So Bodwyn Wook is right that "this is not a formal hearing", since neither the Wook housemaster nor the Conservator are present. Therefore he is right to state that first "I will consult my associates." There are other complications as well : both he and Kirdy are Wooks, and maybe it is proper procedure to appoint a special judge in these cases. Secondly, the Sessily Veder case may even harm Araminta Station's economic interests (since her body was dumped in a wine barrel and then exported). Thirdly, Kirdy's guilt has not been established yet beyond all doubt, nor has he given a full confession, which is why he is advised to take counsel. So Bodwyn Wook is right to say that, together with the Conservator and the Housemaster, "we will decide upon our procedures." Kirdy cannot leave Cadwal anyway, and is warned not to leave Araminta Station. I cannot see anything extraordinary in the fact that Kirdy, with his mind in turmoil, then decides to attack Glawen, responsible for his demise. The fact that the Conservator was not called immediately does not surprise me;as High Court Judge, he was probably still busy with the paperwork for Floreste's trial and execution. Regarding the bunters : As with riding horses and climbing mountains, it is transparently simple. No one stands in the slightest danger unless he rides horses or climbs mountains.
Ambulo, ergo sum!
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David B Williams |
Notes from Cugel and Miro | #28 | |||||||
David B Williams wrote:Well, not really. Burghley wasn't immediately involved with the Armada assault, only one of the Queen's senior advisors. A long book with more information than I wanted. Now I'm back to Vance! I re-read* Cugel's Saga (yucky title) and noted something that modifies all our prior speculations about the length of an Aeon. It's noted that Cugel is ambient in the 19th Aeon of the 52nd Cycle. Very Mayan. We've always assumed that we're extant in the 1st Aeon, but which Cycle? Then I just finished Galactic Effectuator. A couple of interesting notes here too. In The Dogtown Tourist Agency, Miro Hetzel pauses at a booth selling fraudulent identification papers and packets of counterfeit currency. Apparently, the Gaean Reach has retrogressed from the sophistication of the Oikumene's fake meters. Also in Dogtown, the wampum is designated as the SLU, Standard Labor-value Unit, but a year later, in Freitzke's Turn, we're back to SVU (both SLU and SVU have the same value definition). Another example of JV nodding off, as in the famous grandfather vs. uncle incident? * Something's got to be done about the lack of distinction between the present tense and the past tense of "read"! How can a word with the same spelling have different pronunciations depending on tense? Lead** (not the metal) and led offer the obvious solution. ** Something's got to be done about lead and lead! I mean, the word pronounced "leed" indicating the function of The Hindmost and the word pronounced "led", referring to the dull but heavy metal. All in favor of my assuming the post of Supreme Autocrat of Earth immediately and taking executive action in this regard, signify by saying "eye" or "I"***. *** Something's got to be done.... Well, you get the idea. |
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David B Williams |
Improper procedures | #29 | |||||||
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Bravo! Your credentials as a legalist are established and Kirdy would be well advised to retain you as his counsel. However, in other cases the police
procedure was as simple as 1) catch suspects, then 2) execute suspects. While at Araminta Station all the Housemaster and Conservator involvement may be
required, as you elucidate, nonetheless I believe that Kirdy could and should have been arrested and jailed to await these necessary procedures. (Arrest has
always been based on suspicion, not proof of guilt.) If for no other reason, in such a clan-centered society this would be wise for his own protection. While
he is wandering about town, awaiting the slow majesty of the law, what's to stop Sesily's House members from taking revenge and foreclosing more
elaborate legal procedures?
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Sarnidac the Dwarf |
collateral damage | #30 | |||||||
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Which cases exactly are you referring to? Be more specific please! I suspect these are cases involving collaterals, Yips or off-worlders, individuals with
diminished status and very limited legal rights, if any. As to your last argument, I seem to recall that Bodwyn Wook requested the information revealed by
Glawen remain indoors for the time being;and does the US legal practice of releasing somebody on bail not defy this argument?
Ambulo, ergo sum!
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Sarnidac the Dwarf |
feeling sick of it | #31 | |||||||
David B Williams wrote:
Ambulo, ergo sum!
Last Edited By: Sarnidac the Dwarf 06/25/09 12:40:33.
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Alan Da Niao |
#32 | ||||||||
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Ah, the old barrel on a building site story. A venerable institution indeed. Have you heard the version by that musical polymath Gerard Hoffnung? V funny.
Dates from, hmm, the early fifties I should imagine.
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Charles |
#33 | ||||||||
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There is a copy of the Hoffnung version of the bricklayer store here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZUJLO6lMhI.
The complete version of Hoffnung at the Oxford Union can be downloaded here: http://amos.adajessup.com/Gerard_Hoffnung_Oxford_Union_Address.mp3 and includes some additional material. |
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MikeTransreal |
#34 | ||||||||
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I've hardly read any Vance for well over a year - might be two - but recently reread Son of the Tree. And now I've continued
with Chateau d'If (New Bodies for Old), Abercrombie Station (Monsters in Orbit) and currently it's sequel, Cholwell's
Chickens.
Curiously, in Abercrombie Station he describes the approach to the space station and says (paraphrased) 'Abercrombie Station was designed using the Fitch cylindrical method...' but I doubt he was thanked by Abercrombie & Fitch for the reference! |
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uther |
#35 | ||||||||
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I am reading cugel yet again and have the Demon princes lined up....the cycle repeats itself...Jack Vance.....then some history books punctuated by J.V yet
again.
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DocGeorge |
Re: | #36 | |||||||
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I just finished the Lyonesse trilogy (including my absolute favorite fairy-tale, The Green Pearl). This stands out:
"Today I went out to the stables and I found that poor Sir Pom-Pom had been killed in Dahaut and now is dead. I can hardly believe it, since he was so full of foolishness. His life barely got started before it was done."
"Once I spoke along similar lines to Murgen," said Shimrod. "His response was not exactly to the point, and it puzzles me to this day- to
some extent, at least."
"What did he say?"
"First he leaned back in his chair and looked into the fire. Then he said: 'Life is a peculiar commodity, with dimensions of its own. Still,
if you were to live a million years, engaged in continual pleasures of mind, spirit and body; so that every day you discovered a new delight, or solved an
antique puzzle, or overcame a challenge; even a single hour wasted in torpor, somnolence or passivitywould be as reprehensible as if the fault were comitted
by an ordinary person, with scanty years to his life.'
"Hm," said Madouc. "He gave you no exact information, or so it seems to me."
"That was my own feeling," said Shimrod. "However, I did not assert as much to Murgen.
Madouc said thoughtfully: "It might be that he was confused by your question and gave the first answer that entered his mind."
"Possibly so...."
Jack Vance, in Madouc
Jack Vance for the Nobel Prize in Literature!
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pecooper |
Re: Which book from Jack are you (rereading) Now? | #37 | |||||||
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Alas, being laid off in December, I have been forced to take a contract job across the continent in Massachusetts. All my Vance books are back in Washington,
so I'm not going to be reading any of them until, at least, January. On the other hand, I am thoroughly enjoying this part of the country, admiring the
landscape and quaint architecture, experiencing the inns and eating establishments and quaffing the local brews, so I'm keeping up the Vancien side of
life.
Immanuel Kant: sapere aude
Last Edited By: pecooper 07/03/09 13:42:23.
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Sarnidac the Dwarf |
#38 | ||||||||
pecooper wrote:
Ambulo, ergo sum!
Last Edited By: Sarnidac the Dwarf 07/03/09 22:02:30.
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pecooper |
#39 | ||||||||
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Picking Lovecraft is a natural tendency but, except at twilight at the end of a gloomy, rainy day, it's mostly just unthinking reflex. I'm living in the valley of the Connecticut River, on the fringe of the Berkshire mountains*, and the author that most comes to mind here is probably James Fenimore Cooper. Of F&SF authors, the one the landscape most reminds me of is Clifford D. Simak. The rocks, the waterways, the woods, the hidden glens, the wildlife, the farms on the edge of small urban areas, all bring his pastoralist settings to mind.
*The term is, of course, relative. When visiting the park on top of Sugarloaf Mountain, I was proudly informed that the mountain top is 625 feet high. I was
polite. I didn't tell the park ranger that my home in the foothills of the Olympic mountains is located at an elevation only 25 feet below his mountain
top.
Immanuel Kant: sapere aude |
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Knygathin |
#40 | ||||||||
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Space Opera was fine book. It taught me much about art, especially about pedantry versus flexible creativity. And about forgiveness after being burned or
dismissed, through the realization that each person is on his/her own individual path towards self-discovery.
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